Curse

Motoko · Dec 24, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50

So I see a bunch of people complaining about the differences and imbalances between grenth and dwayna... But I'm guessing most of you haven't been in that core group of single elims regulars.

If you were in those matches you would be arguing more for a balance of servers. The biggest issue in those games is not the side, rather having to play on opposing servers where the lag is bad enough where the present never actually drops on your screen.

It doesn't matter how many snares you have at that point if you can't pick up the present.

drkn · Dec 24, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Giving both sides the same bar is not a solution, or rather, it's a solution for people who don't know a damn thing about Snowball.

+1

used to win as both red and blue, that doesn't matter that much.

II Lucky Charm II · Dec 24, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Well... haven't you guys ever read fairy tales? GOOD ALWAYS WINS -_-

By the way, who thinks the movie avatar is good?

En panis · Dec 24, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Stop crying , if u know how to play the game u can win almost everyone on grenth its just about players skill , we have been playing every game in single as grenth in last 3 tournys and won all of those.

-The last revolution

Professor K · Dec 24, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

I've won many matches Grenth side this year. The balance isn't prefect but its a huge improvement from last year. You just have to adjust your playstyle based on which side you end up on.

shadows of hob · Dec 24, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

The good thing about snowballing 8vs8 is that the game is mostly about skill.

Except skill, there are now some minor other things that affect your game, like dwayna/grenth, lag, dc's, present spawning, but in most cases, the team that is better just wins.

Martin Alvito · Dec 24, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

The biggest issue in those games is not the side, rather having to play on opposing servers where the lag is bad enough where the present never actually drops on your screen.

It doesn't matter how many snares you have at that point if you can't pick up the present.

Absolutely true, but players are complaining about something that ANet might actually do something about. The servers have been a persistent problem in GvG ATs for years, to the point that [rawr] abandoned playing a Mesmer during their streak of wins. If those sorts of anecdotes won't get us functional servers, complaining about them in Snowball ATs won't either.

keli · Dec 24, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by En panis

Stop crying , if u know how to play the game u can win almost everyone on grenth its just about players skill , we have been playing every game in single as grenth in last 3 tournys and won all of those.

-The last revolution

ye cuz you use macro to pick up the presents

En panis · Dec 24, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

ye cuz you use macro to pick up the presents

Who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO u are? like 200 people can prove that not any member of our team is using any kind of a macro , have u ever heard of thing called lag if u dont see the presents some times if we pick them? our players have pretty good pings and they know when to watch snowball hitting a target with a packet so u know when to start pressing ur pick up buttoms.Like im using r+space

So u can shut up and learn to play if u dont know anything...

Jinkies · Dec 24, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by En panis

Who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO u are? like 200 people can prove that not any member of our team is using any kind of a macro , have u ever heard of thing called lag if u dont see the presents some times if we pick them? our players have pretty good pings and they know when to watch snowball hitting a target with a packet so u know when to start pressing ur pick up buttoms.Like im using r+space

So u can shut up and learn to play if u dont know anything...

umad?

macro nubs

Martin Alvito · Dec 24, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

They don't macro. Armina is just smarter than you.

They don't commit many positioning fails and they know when to keypress for scoops. Use obs and your brain. Or keep blaming things that aren't correct and losing. Your choice.

keli · Dec 24, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by En panis

Who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO u are? like 200 people can prove that not any member of our team is using any kind of a macro , have u ever heard of thing called lag if u dont see the presents some times if we pick them? our players have pretty good pings and they know when to watch snowball hitting a target with a packet so u know when to start pressing ur pick up buttoms.Like im using r+space

So u can shut up and learn to play if u dont know anything...

i use z+space to pick them up, and yes im pressing it when a snowball is going to hit my teammates thats not hard to do

still we dont pick them up, maybe its the ping, maybe you macro, both of them are unfair

so you can calm down my little young friend

En panis · Dec 24, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

i use z+space to pick them up, and yes im pressing it when a snowball is going to hit my teammates thats not hard to do

still we dont pick them up, maybe its the ping, maybe you macro, both of them are unfair

so you can calm down my little young friend

Yep , its about lag if u dont see it, happens very often to me also and for one last time not any of our players uses a macro we played with these same guys last year. In what guild u are íf i may ask?

keli · Dec 24, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by En panis

Yep , its about lag if u dont see it, happens very often to me also and for one last time not any of our players uses a macro we played with these same guys last year. In what guild u are íf i may ask?

I am in [hent] right now, and we are not as good as last year unfortunately.
Tho we get grenth 75% of the matches

NoConnection · Dec 25, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

change yellow snow to adjacent poison.Disease helps to kill teams faster but with it u counter your team also so you not only dont have snare but have a self inflicting degen also...

Perky · Dec 25, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Why has the topic been changed to macroing lmao. Nobody macros in snowball...everyone just spams their binded "Target nearest item key" and space bar....no need for a macro.

Actually, if you are talking about how amazingly good you are at snowball, And how me or anyone else that agrees with the OP is bad, and you need to see the present drop to pick it up...then you're kind of a nub.

I invite anyone to watch any of the snowball SF and QF games in observer and see that dwayna always wins.

Also, what's with everyone pointing out that the skill balance was WORSE before? That's irrelevant. Mainly because it's still not fixed. And I, unlike most, am not impressed or satisfied when anet patches skills with duct tape and bubble gum.

En panis · Dec 25, 2009, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perky

Why has the topic been changed to macroing lmao. Nobody macros in snowball...everyone just spams their binded "Target nearest item key" and space bar....no need for a macro.

Actually, if you are talking about how amazingly good you are at snowball, And how me or anyone else that agrees with the OP is bad, and you need to see the present drop to pick it up...then you're kind of a nub.

I invite anyone to watch any of the snowball SF and QF games in observer and see that dwayna always wins.

Also, what's with everyone pointing out that the skill balance was WORSE before? That's irrelevant. Mainly because it's still not fixed. And I, unlike most, am not impressed or satisfied when anet patches skills with duct tape and bubble gum.

Yes , there are people who use macros.And u cant say that dwayna always wins becouse that is so wrong i think we have won more single matches as grenth than dwayna.

Fate Crusher · Dec 25, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

For those of you, like Fate, who don't seem to understand the objective of the 8v8 (or 4v4) Snowball let me re-explain.

There are 2 main objectives, Scoring points, and not letting the other team score points. Besides faction, there is little benefit to trying to kill your opponents, as they instant rez anyway.

With that in mind the Grenth tactic of degen and kill does not coincide with the objective at hand. Snowball is essentially a 2 way relic run, where both teams can grab the relic. Anyone who has played HA in the past can see the similarities - We have designated runners, designated snarers, and designated speed buffers.

The difference between the 2 formats comes from the advantages of killing the other team in HA. Killing the other team would mean they have DP (weaking them overall) and non instant resurection. Neither of which are factors seen in snowball.

Teams who have Dwayna throw off this balance. As suddenly, everybody is able to snare, effectively making them able to stop multiple runners at one time.

Merely haveing the ability to cause degen does not garuntee instant enemy death, skills such as Hidden rock, Snow down the shirt, ice breaker, side step, mmm snowcone, mega snowball (pretty much every skill on the bar) can hinder Grenth side incapable of killing Dwayna team in a timely fashion.

In all honestly, the disease doesn't do too much to begin with, between Holidy Blues and flurry, killing enemy teams (especially when balled up) is a joke. Dwayna is just as capeable of killing Grenth as Grenth is of killing Dwayna.

I can see the point Fate is trying to make about the 2 seperate playstyles, but with the objectives as is, his logic doesn't apply. Maybe if it were a kill- the-other-team objective the odds would be more even. Where Dwayna would play more stratigic, using their snares to prevent damage - while Grenth on the other hand would try to spread as much degen and damage as possible.

IMO, 4v4 and 8v8 skill sets should be slightly different; I propose a change such as

In 8v8 Monks carry "Cripple Remover" or something to that effect, something like 1/4 sec cast.. 5 sec recharge, removes cripple off target ally. As it is now Ice breaker is nearly useless. Coordinated teams never have the same person KD and pick up so the skill is pointless.

Also in 8v8, avalanche becomes a touch skill and is the designated skill for both Grenth and Dwayna - no yellow snow. With it being a touch skill, eles will be the only class carrying a ranged snare. Wth a low recharge cripple remover on the monk, a monk ele and warrior split team can effectively run presents. While forcing the other team to be more skillfull with their use of avalanche.

I didn't want to go into a long-winded explanation, but calling me illogical was too far.

Firstly, calling it similar to relic run and then listing everything that is different just shows there are no similarities apart from running an item to score a point. In HA, you do not fight for the same relic, force drops, enable macros to have pro pick up and luck with random spawning "relics". that analogy was as weak as my grandma.

Killing still has it's uses. I know resses are every 5 seconds, but albeit the player is out of the way and won't rejoin the fight for another 20 seconds or so.

I'm not saying they are ballaced, Dwayna is defenitely advantageous but I find it pointless for people to complain that Dwayna is so much better than Grenth when there are other factors involved. Some matches may only have 1 or 2 presents on the map at the same time, making it easier for Grenth teams to pressure. but if there are 3/4+ presents at once, Dwayna teams can split easily and grenth can be left in the dirt.

But you still need to play smart. Grenth teams can afford to play aggressive and force Dwayna teams from splitting on the onset of a match.

Lykan · Dec 25, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

People have been complaining about the bars for 4 years... guess what.. Anet obviously don't care.

Firefly21 · Dec 25, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

There are a ton of suggestions to make this game fair. Dwayna does have an advantage, but not as bad as last year. If it was me, I would do one of the 3 things to try to make things more even.

Reduce crippling from Avalanche to 3-4 sec.
Make Avalanche only target 1 player.
Make yellow snow remove 1 condition on all nearby allies.

I’m sure there are a ton of suggestions but these are just mine.

PS:
Monk = Good in 4 vs 4 but people dont use them in ATs.
Mesmer = Same as Monk
Assassin = Just crap in both 4 vs 4 and ATs
Ritualist = Ok in 4 vs 4, but sucks in ATs
Paragon = This skill only good if the other team dodges a lot… other than that… it sucks.
Dervish = WTF… Just sucks!
Ranger = Sucks in 4 vs 4, good in ATs
Necromancer = Better than last year.. Good In ATs, but kinda sucks in 4 vs 4
The others Classes are good in both AT’s and 4 vs 4